We are aware there is some concern around an increased number of Patreon pages being suspended and reformed. As part of our commitment to providing a safe platform for creators and patrons, we are ramping up our proactive review of content on Patreon. When we discover a page that is not in compliance with our community guidelines (which have not changed) we place that page in a state of suspension and work directly with the creator to bring them back in compliance with our guidelines, resulting in the page being unsuspended.
While you say that your guidelines have not changed, it seems your interpretation and subsequent enforcement of them may have - which amounts to the same thing.
I marked every post I have âpatron onlyâ. And after doing that, my page is apparently still not in compliance. I received this (in part) from Fred:
âAny content that can be viewed publicly by anyone on the site cannot contain nudity or adult content, so I ask that you update your banner, reward tiers, profile picture, overview, and public posts reflect this. This includes any adult content or images with minimal dress, censorship, or implied sexual activity or nudity.â
The logo I have in my banner has been there since day one.
The reward tiers have always mentioned erotic stories.
The description of what I do has always mentioned pegging because I am a sex educator and thatâs what I teach about.
My page was flagged for a few photos in non-compliance last year, I took them down and was told this by your Trust and Safety Team âHi Ruby! Everything looks great. Thanks so much for your understanding!â
So if Fred really does want me to remove my logo and alter my overview and reward tiers so it has no mention of anything sexual, then yes, things have changed. And if things are going to be censored this much (which sadly, was predicted some time ago), Iâll be looking for another platform.
Why canât you put a 18 or over validation page for the adult content creators? Youâve already hamstrung us by eliminating us from search results - which makes it harder for us to succeed. Doesnât feel real supportive. On the other hand, if what you want is to bit by bit make it harder for us so that we do leave - youâre doing everything just right.
Almost feels like first you wanted classify us as adult content, which I am fine with because what I teach about is absolutely adult materialâŚand now youâre saying that any mention of adult content is verboten anywhere on my page?
Frustrated!!! And waiting to hear back from Fred.
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Hey Ruby! Our policies have not changed and the support team are happy to keep working with you to bring your page to compliance. Iâve flagged this issue to them to fast track it so we can work together to solve it.
Doesnât feel like we are working together to solve it, frankly.
Still nothing from Fred. And now thisâŚ
A fan and patron contacted Patreon with this message:
How is it that your fans, who have actually contributed financially/materially/monetarily/etc, are then denied both your posts, and access to your content archives? What could be more ridiculous? If thereâs a complaint, they should address the issue with the poster and patron; however, why should that deprive ALL the other fans whoâve paid?
And Patreonâs response was this:
Thanks for getting in touch - Iâm happy to help. It sounds like youâre trying to visit the pages of creators whose content is currently being review by our Trust & Safety team.
If you would like to delete your pledge to a creator under review, I can definitely help with this. For verification purposes, please reply back to me with the following information:
1. Name or URL of the creator you support
2. Exact dates and amounts (in USD) of the last 2 charges to Patreon.
3. The last four digits of your card.
4. The cardâs expiration date.
5. Your billing zip code.
If the charges occurred via PayPal, write back with the answers to 1 - 2 and the email associated with your PayPal account.
With that information, I should be able to take the proper actions by deleting your pledge to this creator.
Let me know if you have any questions, or if thereâs anything I can help with.
So basically a fan is not happy that he cannot access content he paid for while the page is under review, and Patreonâs FIRST response is to offer to delete his pledge?
SERIOUSLY???
Wow.
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I feel SO supported as a creator.
Thanks for sharing this - I hadnât seen this sort of response and have already shared with the team how off this sounds. The team recognized this is not the right wording this afternoon and have been working on some updated messaging. So my apologies because youâre right, this is not the way we should be supporting you or responding to patrons who really care about your work.
Keep me posted on the other email from Fred. Iâm traveling tomorrow so may be slow to respond, but am keeping an eye on this.
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Same here⌠Suspended page with no violation. Every R-18 is patreon only.
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Heard from FredâŚ
Hey Ruby,
Iâm happy to clarify here. The issue here is the nature of the images accompanying your posts, and not the subject matter of pegging.
You are welcome to continue posting written stories about pegging and referencing it in your reward tiers.
With regard to the images in your posts, Patreon has never allowed pornography, which includes real people engaging in sexual activity on camera, such as masturbation or play with sex toys.
_The GIFs linked in the posts below, as well as any similar ones would need to be removed since they show masturbation: _
***************
***************
Additionally, the images on your page depicting worn sex toys will need to be removed since we donât allow any play with sex toys. (my emphasis)
Let me know once youâve made these changes, and donât hesitate to email me if you have any questions in the meantime â Iâm here to help.
Fred
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To be clear, I am posting all this in the name of transparency. While I keep hearing the Patreon mantra that the guidelines have not changed (disingenuous), there is absolutely no question that the interpretation and enforcement have changed, which (Iâll keep repeating this because no one at Patreon so far has copped to it) is the same thing. I fear that Paypal/big banks are in the shadows dictating all of this censorship, as was predicted.
Jack Conteâs own words on Oct 25, 2017: âI hope you understand that nothing has changed except our stance on four areas of content: bestiality, incest, sexual depiction of minors, and suggestive sexual violence.â Care to update that statement. Mr. Conte? Because my page violates NONE of those issues.
My response:
Hello Fred,
Thanks for the clarification.
Now I am going to ask for even more clarification, and would love a response ASAP.
The sex toys being worn are not being used, so I donât understand why I need to remove them.
Surely âplay with sex toysâ does not include a woman wearing a strap-on? How is that âplayâ? Even when there is no other person in the picture? She is not using it to masturbate. She is simply wearing it. Thatâs like saying I canât have a picture of a hand holding a dildo. Is that true? Are you limiting me to pictures of sex toys but never with a person? Please advise.
Pegging is what I write and teach about. Pegging requires equipment. Evaluation of harnesses and dildos is an integral part of what I offer as a specialized sex educator. The fit of those harnesses is a critical part of the formula, clearly. Not being able to show women wearing strap-on harnesses would not work for me.
As far as the links to photos â I will willingly remove them. Iâd like to point out that I switched to links (the photos are hosted elsewhere) in August of 2017 because Trust and Safety asked me to take some pics down. Then they reviewed my page and told me I was good to go and everything looked great (I can send you a copy of the email). Had they told me at that time I could not post links to photos or gifs, either, I would not have continued to put them with my posts. Because now itâs a lot of work to remove them.
Although everyone keeps telling me that Patreonâs guidelines have not changed, the interpretation and enforcement of them is not yet stable, and I do wonder where it will stop in this censorship-heavy time.
Seeking a response ASAP as Iâve already been down a week.
Thanks for your consideration,
Ruby Ryder
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And I lost my first patron this morning. Not surprised because my page has been down a week.
Thanks Ruby - I just DMed you.
instead of dming users, it would be nice if you were transparent in your policy practices so it didnât appear to everyone with eyeballs that patreon is doing an extraordinarily poor job of sweeping some kind of problem under the rug. can you cut the crap, and tell us what is going on? for full transparency i am soliciting questions from people on twitter to ask via this forum, because patreon refuses to address itâs user base directly
e: i donât make adult content and have no plans to, but it is evident from the email rubyâs donor received that no one who works there knows what the hell is going on
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every time i have to post on this forum its because you guys have done something awful and inexplicable and this is the only avenue i can exploit on behalf of everyone to get some answers.
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Thanks for sharing your concerns around these issues. I really appreciate the feedback, and itâs been shared with the people at Patreon who need to hear these thoughts.
@RubyRyder Thanks for reaching out, and I understand your concern here. Our Trust & Safety team does not take the suspension or removal of a creatorâs page lightly. If a creatorâs page is found to be outside of our community guidelines, their account is suspended and the review process begins. Once a creatorâs page is in review, a member of our team works one-on-one with them toward reform. I understand Fred has been helping you directly and will continue to do so.
@beasmygod While a creatorâs page is under review, they have full access to their account and settings. Their tiers, posts, and patrons are left as is, however, their page will note they are under review. Our goal is to work with creators so they are operating within our guidelines, and can continue to deliver the rewards you expect.
Unfortunately, Iâm unable to share the details of RubyRyderâs page review or any other creator. Please know that our team works as quickly as possible and with empathy to help creators reform their pages.
Thanks again for getting in touch, I hope this helps shed some light.
it doesnât. @RubyRyder would you feel comfortable continuing to share the process of being under review with me/others? as many int he twitter thread pointed out, when a creator is under review its seems there is no recourse for them and the only option that was given to donors was a refund of their money because of what looks a change in policy no one was given adequate warning to respond to. itâs been a week and people are still being reviewed but these are peopleâs livelihoods.
e: some questions asked by people on twitter:
- why is there no âadults onlyâ section of the site?
- if a creator is unable to get wholly back into compliance, what is their recourse?
- is this related to paypal and if not what is the reasoning for the change in policy?
- how can we trust patreon not to deactivate our accounts in the future due to some unforeseen change in policy?
- will patreon pay retribution to creators whose income has been affected by patreonâs handling of the policy change?
in particular #4 is the only one that affects me permanently but it is something that iâm asking myself more and more.
For any creator thatâs under review, they receive that 1:1 help that I mentioned earlier so they can work to reform their page. They still have access to payouts in that time, as well as to their account and settings.
We recognize that replies have been slower than we would like and are really sorry for that, as well as the subsequent confusion around this. The Trust and Safety team are actively working to ensure that they respond to creators within a faster window and we apologize for this delay.
if a creator is âper itemâ rather than âper monthâ wouldnât they be unable to access payouts since they wouldnât be able to make posts in order to receive payment? this is such a non-answer. having technical access to the tools to receive only payout isnât what anyoneâs asking about.
@beasmygod
I have posted just about all of the exchange here: https://www.facebook.com/rubyryder/posts/1757917134261366 (Including the link about the prediction of Patreon caving to Paypal that was removed from my post.) I will continue to update there on Facebook.
Please spread the word on twitter and everywhere you can (the FB post is public), because this is not encouraging:
âAny content that can be viewed publicly by anyone on the site cannot contain nudity or adult content, so I ask that you update your banner, reward tiers, profile picture, overview, and public posts reflect this. This includes any adult content or images with minimal dress, censorship, or implied sexual activity or nudity.â
Apparently being marked adult content did nothing but remove us from searches - there is no age verification wall. Seems like instead of having one, they are trying to enforce all Creators to make their landing page suitable for all age viewers. How one does that as a sex educator is beyond me. This is what makes me think they are under the thumb of Paypal. Otherwise itâs an easy fix - age verification click through, not trying to make sex educator landing pages (or erotic art, etc. etc. etc.) suitable for churchgoers and kids.
If you can view the HangTime tomorrow, supposedly Jack Conte will be commenting on thisâŚwill be recorded and link posted here (according to Carla) for those who cannot attend (like me - working). Donât know about HangTime - whether there is interaction possibilities or not. SomehowâŚI suspect not.
This is the time to protest, people. And ask your patrons to protest, too. Patreon needs to hear from us, as we adult content creators are a LOT of their income.
And BTW - you can still send private messages to your patrons even if your page is down. Do it! Explain the situation and ask for support.
Ruby
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It is mind boggling that this could not have been anticipated and done in stages instead of en masse, as it seems to have beenâŚwith an inadequate staff to handle the fallout.