The tables that were shared in the previous post were the same tables that already exist in this help center article, and not the new versions. You can find the updated previews of how common tier prices will be priced below, the date that we’ll make the update stays the same. Thanks for all your questions so far!
Hey creators,
Back in December, we sent an email notifying you that we would be taking steps to adjust our price book rates (the price book is how we determine tier prices for international patrons).
We wanted to follow up and let you know that we will be updating the rates on Feb 22, 2021. We will also notify you of this change via a pop-up in your Patreon account.
This update will only affect the tier prices that new patrons see when they are paying in a currency that is different to your payout currency.
A few reminders:
We’re doing this as exchange rates are now well above the 4.5% buffer we have in place to protect creators against these types of fluctuations.
Nothing changes for your existing patrons. They’ll have the ability to opt into new pricing when they visit their Patreon account, but that choice is up to them.
In advance of changing the rates, here’s a preview of how common tier prices will be priced in GBP, EUR, CAD and USD based on the new rates:
To read more about how tier prices are converted, click here.
As always, if you have any questions, feel free to thread them here. Our team will be available to provide clarity in this thread for the rest of this week!
Hello; these values don’t include tax/VAT right? Was a bit confused since it indicates “Patron pays in EUR” and I believe EUR uses tax-inclusive pricing when displayed to users. So the actual user paid amount is the Patron pays field + VAT?
" Our goal is to update the Price Book about every 6-12 months, depending on when large exchange rate fluctuations occur."
you’ve had to update it twice already in 2 months lol. as i predicted, trying to do this during a fluctuating global market is a weird and bad idea that can only hemorrhage time or money.
this shit isn’t working. you are out of your minds for even trying to do this lol. surely, certainty, literally every single payment processor out there is capable of doing this without you guys trying to do this inexplicably by hand, right? i literally do not understand the purpose of this except to scrape money out of someone somewhere
can literally anyone at patreon explain to me why they’re doing this and how it benefits anyone except patreon, who gets to arbitrarily decide what currency is worth. like according to google you guys are way off compared to reality. where’s the extra 10 dollars going when someone pays canadian dollar to USD?
I presented a similar warning when this went into effect, and begged Patreon to allow us to opt out of patrons selecting a currency because it would be confusing AND lead to wildly fluctuating prices.
I cannot control the price displayed to my patrons, something that I still feel is very, very wrong.
@SkyCorp yes that’s correct, the values don’t include VAT. We don’t have tax inclusive pricing so the prices will be as shown in the tables, +VAT which is displayed at checkout.
Can someone explain why I am not seeing any changes in the tier prices when comparing this price book to older price books?
When I look at the detailed patronage csv, however… I’m seeing daily fluctuations as well as different exchange rates for individual patrons who supposedly locked in their tier price. So while their price is fixed, the rate is not and my share goes down…?
Example patron who pledges 12 USD:
October: $11,11
November: €8.81
December: €8.56
January: €8.45
February: €8.35 (equals $10.13 today)
Additionally my fees went through the roof. I paid 8-9% before (platform + payment processing fees), and now I’m paying 14% in fees.
Creator-first? Not so much.
I wish I’d never switched to EUR pay-out currency.
You are correct, those are the existing example tier prices, thank you for pointing that out. We’re editing the existing post and will share the new example prices shortly.
To answer your question, what new patrons pay is fixed until the price book is updated. What creators earn fluctuates based on the daily exchange rate, this is explained under the earnings and exchange rates section in this article; we convert pledge amounts using a daily exchange rate to ensure you’re getting the latest market rate. So you’ll receive slightly different amounts for each pledge. Note that we also apply a 4.5% buffer to tier prices and round up to the nearest 50c to protect you against potential currency fluctuations.
Keep in mind that exchange rate fluctuations mean your earnings can go up or down depending on market conditions. As it stands with this upcoming price book change, you’ll end up making more as your 10 EUR tier for new US patrons will be 13 USD.
When it comes to your fees, by changing your payout currency from USD to EUR, your processing fees associated with your Founders plan were updated to EUR processing fees. That being said, you do still maintain the same 5% platform fee. There are differences in payment processing fees depending on the currency you choose, and these rates are detailed in this help center article here. This information is also disclosed during the currency change process.
Honestly, creators were never given much of a choice because this feature was rolled out for Patrons regardless. I’m not seeing any higher conversions. all I’m seeing is 6% more fees* & my earnings going down and down and down due to poor exchange rates. It’s a really poor design.
Before I switched currencies, I paid 2.5% directly to Paypal to withdraw my USD balance to EUR. Having to pay 6% to Patreon to avoid that 2.5% Paypal conversion fee feels REALLY BAD
“The system for creative people is broken” and Patreon is going down the same road…
It’s great that the tier prices are adjusted for NEW patrons, but the bulk of my earnings still comes from existing patrons. Why are they not prompted to opt-in to the new price?
I’ve asked multiple times for clarification on the “processing fees associated with the Founders plan” because it’s not clear to me what the difference is with the Pro plan. If I pay 3% more for the pro plan, will my fees go down? Because that currently seems like a better deal than paying 14% total fees (up from 8-9%).
There’s no threshold below which you are VAT exempt when it concerns selling digital goods/services to customers in other EU countries, because they are taxed in the country where our customer lives, not our own country. Below a certain threshold (varies per EU country) you can make use of the VAT MOSS scheme. It’s quite complicated… So Patreon charges and remits VAT on creator’s behalf (just like other marketplaces do, such as Etsy and Gumroad, for digital items). Thanks to this, we don’t have to sign up for VAT MOSS.
While it sucks that our patrons are charged VAT on top of their pledge, there’s just no way around this. The EU created this law to ensure fair competition. While I have my fair share of complaints with Patreon, I am grateful that they took this burden off of creators.
So patreon charges VAT I don’t have to pay and my patreons don’t have to pay, because it is easier for them? (I hope this doesn’t sound snarky, English is not my first language ^^")
I’m sorry, I’m still confused as I and my patrons are in the EU.
Patreon claims that they are the seller of record, and that their aggregate sales require them to collect VAT, even if you, personally, do not owe it. This only serves to reinforce the idea that creators are suppliers to Patreon, and that our patrons are customers of Patreon, not of the creators they support. Everything else Patreon does assumes that phony relationship.
When Patreon took away our ability to control the displayed priace, they made it clear we are no different from the firm that supplies the paper goods to their offices.
You ARE required to charge VAT. Even if you sell a single digital product to a person in Germany, you have to charge and remit VAT. You’d even have to charge German VAT and remit this to the German tax authority, unless you sign up for VAT MOSS, a scheme which allows you to charge Austria VAT and remit it to your tax authority (who then forwards it to Germany). It’s EU law. It sucks, but it’s the way it is. It is not a decision made by Patreon. If anything, Patreon is helping creators by remitting VAT on our behalf. If they didn’t, you’d have to remit VAT yourself. Either way: VAT is not profit for Patreon.
EU VAT is not something imposed by Patreon. If you want to be angry with someone, be angry at the EU, because this is not Patreon doing. This law was made because big e-commerce companies like Amazon (selling e-books) chose to locate themselves in countries with lower VAT rates, giving them an unfair advantage. So the EU said: you now have to charge VAT based on the customer’s location.
Edited to add: Etsy does this the exact same way so this has nothing to do with reinforcing the idea that creators are suppliers, like Michael suggests: they simply calculate VAT for digital items, remit it on the seller’s behalf, so we don’t have to… and where it concerns physical goods, Etsy sellers are required to list the VAT-inclusive prices and calculate / remit VAT themselves. They also display prices in the customer’s currency (rounded up) at the current exchange rate.
Frenone is right (thank you for your detailed response!) as required by the EU, Patreon is required to charge VAT as the platform that is offering digital goods and services to patrons. According to EU tax law, Patreon is considered the seller and responsible party. We collect VAT based on the patron’s location, not the creator’s, and pay VAT to each country’s tax authority.
Hi everyone - thanks for your thoughtful questions about multi currency and the upcoming rate change! If you have any questions moving forward about VAT, currencies, or rate changes please submit a ticket to the support team.
I’m in Austria, so maybe that’s where the confusion comes from 
It’s an EU country so the law is the same regardless.