I can tell. 
I think that’s a point that all of us could agree on! 
The quesion is whether Patreon will give us that flexibility, and maybe some flexibility of how prominent the rewards are on the page. There are some creators for whom a subscription or membership model make a lot of sense, and they would likely prefer to have the rewards be more front and center. There are others who are not offering much in the way of rewards, or who don’t want them overly emphasized. Making them have pages where the rewards are so prominent could be a big hindrance to their campaigns.
So we are just asking Patreon to not, in the spirit of helping out some campaigns, force some of us to do something that we feel would be actively detrimental to our campaigns. That would include forcing us to change our language on our pages, making the rewards too prominent and taking away or penalizing the per-creation payment option. That’s mainly what we’re asking for, as far as I can tell. And maybe find a better word than membership.
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I agree. This was the premise a lot of us joined on: fans supporting creators so creators could have the creative freedom to make the things they want, not just fulfillment of rewards. After all it’s Patreon not Membreon. 
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Hi there - I’m Kate and working on our Patreon U program, which is our new creator university. It’s wonderful to get your thoughts and feedback about this language. Thank you all for sharing your points of view and experiences. 
As we build up the content for Patreon U, one thing we’ve been discussing frequently is business models. We are using a lot of “membership” language, but we know success looks different for all creators. We tackled this topic in a recent post… I wonder if it would be helpful for this discussion. https://blog.patreon.com/successful-business-models-letting-fans-pay-you
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Very!
No, I’m not. Perhaps you should be using youtube?
Not trying to be a smart arse, Mindy, but I call it “patronage”. If I must, the actual payment is indeed a donation.
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Not if I’m committed to it regardless of whether I get ‘tipped’ or not. Whether Patreon chooses to support both your ideal view of patronage and my ‘romantic’ one, or not, is up to Patreon and that will determine whether I continue ‘begging’ here. There are alternatives, like PayPal.
Thanks, but I don’t feel like any of those really captures what we’re doing and have been doing on Patreon since 2014.
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I agree. The third comes closest, but it’s still pretty far off target from Patreon’s original model.
I do have to say I am taking “tip jar” off my first reward tier due to the conversation here. What I want is for people to pledge what they want/can afford and have my art free for everyone, but tip jar was a more concise way of saying that. I’m seeing that has some sort of connotation as being something extra or somehow not something to be taken seriously and that is not at all the case. Maybe I’ll rename it “Patron’s Choice” or something along those lines.
Your statement about the psychology is so helpful to me, thanks! I teach tutorials on jewelry making and used to mail my patrons a reward of a small package of beads and findings after every six months of being a patron. I figured this would be a nice way to encourage longevity and help me find good homes for some excess supplies.
What I found instead was this it was often the kiss-of-death to their patronage! I could never figured out why, but when patron after patron stopped shortly after receiving their package, I stopped the practice. Besides, the postage costs were starting to get to me.
I switched to offering a coupon to my digital tutorials. I’ve had a grand total of two patrons use those coupons, and both stopped being patrons shortly afterwards. One gave the reason as “just not getting much out of it.” So that proves the point made elsewhere in this discussion about the motivation of patrons.
Seems like I need to think more this way:
Thanks for the clarity!
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I’m late to this post, but Ghool’s comment was very much like what I wrote on my own survey, so I wanted to second it.
Re: support vs membership - my patrons are supporting a free niche webcomic written by and for minority people, for the purpose that the comic can remain free for all readers, especially those who can’t afford to buy it. My patrons become part of my community, but I don’t see that as “membership,” which implies exclusivity or an in-group vs out-group. I offer a lot of rewards, but I never want my patrons to prioritize rewards above the webcomic itself. (As far as I can tell, most don’t.)
My creations are dependent on funding (my life/schedule doesn’t allow me to create without pay), and my Patreon is a major part of my overall career. But I still feel “support” or “patronage” are more appropriate for my project than “membership.”.
I assume there were probably marketing tests that suggested “membership” converted more patrons than other language. But if that’s the case, I wonder if the results were the same across all industries and genres, or if the tests were done across all industries. “Membership” just isn’t a mentality I see a lot in free (not-18+) webcomics, so I’d be curious to know.
And if there’s any research/data, I’m also curious whether patrons who join under the “membership” language stick around for as long as those who join to “support” - and if their pledge is more heavily influenced by the volume of rewards offered.
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Well, my evidence is only anecdotal, so it can be taken with a grain of salt.
I make instructional videos that help viewers learn to paint miniatures, and improve their skills.
The main reason for Patreon support, for my channel anyways, is to get more access to me.
Supporting my channel gets you a direct access feedback and critique network of myself and other Patrons across Discord, and early access to all public videos. I have a physical reward tier, but rewards for that are only given out 4 times per year max. In addition, Patrons will get a Patron-only video every month or two.
I don’t feel the need to give out more than that, and doing physical rewards really takes a chunk out of my earnings. So, I don’t do it very often anymore.
And since I have squashed most of the physical rewards, Patrons are more inclined to stick around for longer. I think the reasoning here is that Patrons come to me because of my content.
If I then offer physical rewards and such, it creates a disconnect, when really the main reason the person wanted to support me is because I create content.
This removes the altruistic desire to support the content, and replaces it with a physical desire for a ‘thing’.
Once that desire for the ‘thing’ has been satiated, the person leaves. This is the exact opposite of what happens when there are no physical rewards. Patrons support is given for the desire to feel good, and not for a ‘thing’, and thus, the feeling is never satiated.
I’m in a very small niche, within an already small, niche market of analogue gaming, and it’s a crowded market for miniature painting instructional videos. However, I can’t really offer a lot of physical rewards anyways.
But, I really don’t like the idea, or language used around support being labelled as ‘Membership’ or ‘Subscription’. These days, that’s all anything is - a Membership or Subscription. The problem is, that creates a ‘What do I get for my money?’ attitude instead of an altruistic desire to support some one’s project(s).
Personally, I don’t think anyone needs another ‘Subscription Service’ to pay for every month, and the change in language forces a change of perception. And that’s where I find issue.
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Yes, I think that Ghool, bob_artist and others of us are trying to find ways to express something very similar. I think we feel that it’s not clear to us that Patreon is getting this message, but I am glad to see that I’m not the only one who feels this way! I think some of us are having similar experiences with how Patreon is working for us and our supporters, and it would be important to us that Patreon not make changes that force us in the wrong direction.
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Honestly, there is no benefit to my using Patreon for membership, or for the dispensing of swag. I have a large shop web site, where people have been buying my products, and enrolling in my classes, for years. For me, Patreon has never been “you give me X dollars, and I give you a thing in exchange”. That’s what my web site and online classroom have been doing for over a decade. Patreon is not that kind of transaction. It’s “you support my work, and give me the wiggle room to do weird, non-commercial stuff, and in exchange, I show you what my daily life as a creative looks like”. That’s not something my shop, or my classroom, can do, but Patreon is perfectly suited toward.
Support, not membership.
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This thread has been so enlightening and thought provoking, I really appreciate you all for taking the time to share your thoughts around it. I thought this comment from @Ghool was really interesting:
As it shows there are so many benefits patrons get from supporting creators that aren’t the tangible, shippable, or downloadable items. I think as this is such new territory we’re all still working out the right language to use. One of the reasons I love Patreon is because of the sheer range of creators who use it to support themselves, and the way they use it to suit their needs — just last week we looked at a creator who is using it to raise funds to repair a haunted house!
I wanted to check in and let you know that we’re here, reading your comments, and will keep doing so
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It’s obvious that each creator’s perception informs how they interact with their patrons. So long as Patreon leaves room for that diversity we’re good. edit; what I mean is why does any language have to be forced?
My concerns were that they seem to be heavily branding themselves these days as a membership service, and they appear to be considering changing the layout and language of our creator pages to reflect this more. In addition, I was concerned that they might do away with or change the fee structure on the per-creation payment model, in keeping with this whole change. I totally agree though that if they leave ample room for the diversity that is here, then I’m good!
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Thinking about this more, there are a few ways to increase revenue.
- Increase the number of people that are aware of your content/campaign and become fans.
- Increase the conversion rate of fans to patrons.
- Increase the money collected per person.
I feel like ‘membership’ is dealing in the #2-3, area. It makes sense for Patreon to work on this, since they don’t really help with #1 (you need to raise awareness on your own).
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