Raffle Replacement

Get More Patrons Marketing
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I’ll have to look into the game of skill but it seems like the best work arounds would be more along the following:

  • Just give everyone an extra
  • Make a limited time benefit (sign up within this time window to get this benefit) - this may actually be the most motivating
  • Create a reward tier with a limited count
  • (From our internal T&S team): Opening up the giveaway to all of their followers/subscribers. For example, a creator used the giveaway on their channel to advertise into “if you want even more special perks, check out my Patreon page” but of course, no actual giveaways on Patreon afterwards.

I’m keeping an eye on this, and will keep looping in T&S, but that may slow down response time!

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@carla - we really appreciate the time and the help. We’ve got time :wink: We’re just hoping for better ways to do this.

For your second option, it seems like a limited number benefit would also work? I could see saying, “the next 2 new patrons will get a XYZ”.

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It is good to know that limited time join before x date kinds of things are allowed! That is very good news as I had plans to do something like that.

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It’s good to have this all cleared up. Thank you, Carla. Unfortunately, it obliterates all of my higher level goals, which were to randomize a free commission to patrons when I hit certain milestones. I thought if I could get around this by adding followers into the randomization then no one would be “purchasing a chance” as it would be open to all.

I’m going to have to seriously rethink all of my upper level goals as I cannot just give everyone an extra. If I were doing a free artwork for every one dollar patron when I got to my $200 goal, that would devalue my art and take up all of my time. I did a limited time, limited count reward tier this month on both Patreon accounts with no takers. I’ve done several giveaway promos to followers outside of Patreon in an effort to get them in, but if the prize isn’t in Patreon they’re not following the links, and I was really wanting to use it to reward current patrons. I certainly don’t want to say go to this other social media site for the giveaway. My goal isn’t to get my patrons to think all the fun stuff is outside of my Patreon. I want to keep them in. Back to the drawing board for me. I’ll brainstorm with my patrons to see what other high level goals they may like instead. :slightly_smiling_face:

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My sympathies! What if you gave patrons extras when they hit milestones of their own, i.e a total lifetime support of $200 (or more, it’s for you to see what would make sense for you). I realize that’s not to do with your own patreon goals anymore, but it’s still an incentive for patrons – not random, but one-off, and not so easy to reach as to take all your time.

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46

Thanks all, trying to answer questions:

  1. Yes, @TreseBrothers - I think you could do “the next 2 new patrons will get XYZ”
  2. @Lochy - hmm, let’s think about this. I absolutely don’t think it’s worth devaluing your art! I do think there’s an opportunity for something that’s more about cumulative milestones would be great.
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Hey all! I’m Patreon’s Head of Legal and can provide some additional insight here. Raffles/Giveaways are one of my favorite issues to discuss so happy to followup with any other questions you all have.

Before jumping into the substantive stuff:

  1. I am not an expert in lotteries, sweepstakes or contest law. This is a thing attorney’s literally build an entire career out of so I’m sure my limited knowledge is lacking.
  2. This is not legal advice and I am not your attorney. I can only provide general answers about the law and how Patreon treats this issue.

Alright, let’s start with an overview of the subject matter. There are three types of giveaways: lotteries, sweepstakes and contests. The classification depends on two main factors:

  1. Did everyone have to pay to enter?
  2. Was the winner chosen through pure chance?

If both are true then this is a lottery and is most likely illegal gambling. Pretty much every country and in the US every state has laws against gambling or heavily regulating it.

If only the second is true then you have a sweepstakes. Some entrants might have paid to enter, but it wasn’t required. This is where you might see the phrase “No Purchase Necessary.” A famous example of this is McDonalds Monopoly. As an alternative to paying for entry it often requires mailing in an entry. Many sweepstakes on the internet might require just signing up to an email list or following a twitter account. These are regulated in most places, but are generally legal.

If only the first is true then you have a contest where entrants have to pay (either through money or some sort of effort), but the winner is chosen through skill. A common example might be an essay writing contest. These are also regulated in most places, but are generally legal.

So what can you do on Patreon?
Anything that looks like a lottery is not allowed. This is both for Patreon’s protection and your own. Private lotteries are illegal pretty much everywhere and creators are just as likely to be arrested as Patreon is to get in trouble for this, but we would prefer neither happens.

Sweepstakes and contests are allowed, but we do not help administrate them in any way and cannot guarantee they are legal. There are lots of laws about this so please consider looking into it before doing something like this. Also if it’s illegal where you are, where a patron is, or you do it in a way that is illegal, then we would have to take action to remove it if we are given notice of any of these things.

Some more clear cut practices with lower (likely non-existant) legal risk are:

  • First come first serve.
  • Limited size reward tiers.
  • Working down a list of all patrons at a reward level to give out special rewards, even if that reward is optional, e.g. you can ask if the patron wants it before you send it, and skip to the next patron if they don’t.

Happy to keep the discussion going here and answer questions, although with the understanding that I can’t provide specific answers on whether something is legal or not.

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48

I am a little confused now. You say first come first served is okay. I assume this is for people joining tiers but is first come first served offers to patrons okay under this then?

Ex: offering freebies/first dibs on commission slots not included in their tiers/etc. They technically paid to get those offers (like a magazine membership. Magazines have ads and offers inside It that are often different in every issue. Sometimes special subscriber only things.) Would I need to have them answer a skill testing questions for first come first served in this way if I didn’t want it to specifically be a more complicated contest? Or?

There have been some conflicting posts so far, so I’m just trying to be clear about this and make sure I understand.

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@collin - thank you for the informative answers and for being so helpful. Very glad that you eventually found our thread here, we needed this kind of specifics!

Thank you very much for the list of 3 viable options. It’s great to see those confirmed as clear cut low risk options.

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I am trying to track down Colin to get some answers - he’s on vacation for the holiday weekend, but as soon as I hear something, or he sees this, we can get an answer.

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Much appreciated! Thanks Carla. :slight_smile:

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For the vast majority of first come first served offers there will be no extra steps required by Patreon.

So in your example if you wanted to offer first dibs on a commission slot or other freebies to your patrons, that would be allowed by Patreon.

The only situation that I can imagine having a problem with is if it looks like a way to try and avoid the raffle rules. For example if you had a $1000 tier, and the only reward for that tier was that every month you gave out a prize on a first come first served basis that was worth thousands of dollars. That would be very suspicious and likely a violation of the spirit of our rules.

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53

This is wonderful to hear! Thank you!