Thanks for weighing in! We definitely don’t want to get between you and your patrons, so this is helpful feedback. I’m wondering how many declines you typically see? How does it affect you currently, if at all?
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Right! I knew you tried repeatedly to recharge, but didn’t realise it was so thorough! That actually reinforces the case for swifter action regarding deletion.
For me, a month would be plenty.
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I would prefer the option to do this myself without the option of blocking them but just simply removing them. I personally DM all declined people to let them know it’s declined and that they will be removed from the project if it doesn’t go through or i don’t hear from them before X date. However i usually give a little more time, especially for those whom have has successful pledges in the past. I’ve also had some patrons who’s work takes them out of internet range for weeks at a time and i don’t want to remove them until they’ve returned and have a chance to actually see whats up. (Often times if the payment period has passed and it doesnt seem to be trying to charge them anymore, they just end up shooting me money via paypal and i keep them on.) Sometimes I’ll even give a declined patron another month of content just because they’ve been a really supportive person. (I have no idea how the “pause your pledge” thing even works and what content they are able to see when they do this or even what it looks like on the creators end. So i can’t even tell if this is something that may be impacting what i see or how their pledges look to me.)
But it’s never one solution is right for every situation. I just want the ability to remove people without blocking them so i can take control of my project without it looking like they’ve done something wrong (since they were getting emailed when blocked, unsure if that’s still a thing.) Perhaps this is because i have a small patron base on patreon (like ~30 people) but i want to be as personable as i can with those i know who’ve been supportive and not auto remove them without having time on my end to attempt to communicate with them.
I do see how attractive it is, if patreon just did it for us though, so i’m a little torn. I guess i’d prefer if it was optional. For me i just worry about it still reflecting poorly on me since that’s not how i run my projects. People usually still get removed from my patreon within a couple weeks of a declined pledge but it really depends on the circumstances around that particular patron. 
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I very much agree with this.
I totally understand - it can certainly feel very final to remove a pledge. I’m wondering if there is an upper-bound to what you think is still ok? For example, if Patreon removed pledges automatically after 2 months of declines, would you have any issue with that? 3 months?
As much as I can, I want to try to balance making all of you comfortable with the system and also making it less of a hassle for creators with large decline bases.
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Recently the last couple of months have had one fraud and between 5-9 declines each of the last two months (many of these the same people since I sent warnings the first time it happened but gave them nother month to fix things.)
I did have a lot more earlier on until I removed them, my current supporters seem a lot better in this regard.
The number on my page says I have 77 patrons currently so declines make up a rather small but not insignificant about of patrons, most of them are at the $10 level as well.
It doesn’t affect me too much at the moment, I don’t do anything differently but I do expect to see the number of patrons and money to drop on pay day each month which is annoying but understandable, not much can be done about that.
I don’t think it should be forced, but a option, so i have no outer limit to suggest because it is seemingly taking my power away from me as the creator of my project page. I also don’t think this is really the solution we need overall. What we’ve been asking for is just the option to remove, not block, for a long time now. This whole other automated thing seems like a non-answer to the problem, a flourish that really only works for some people and for some others, impedes on their projects, where as the simplest and most straightforward answer is the remove button. I don’t actually think overall this automation should be a priority (and in my case, not needed.) The remove a patron (not block) should be the focus as it is optional and useful, let alone that it seems to be one of the most sought after features here and elsewhere, for years, outside of some privacy issues. It doesn’t need flourishing, just a simple button that creators can use if they need to.
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I agree with Temrin.
We can already ban people if and when we want to. The issue that is being talked about here is the ability to remove without banning. It doesn’t need to be automated and nor should it be.
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I agree with this idea. I don’t like block supporters that are declined for several months.
I agree that any potential automated system that removes declined patrons should be optional and not mandatory for creators. But if it was an option, I would use it. I really hate contacting patrons who’ve declined, and I almost never do it. I don’t like looming over people who might already be stressed or embarrassed by their declined pledge. But if it’s been months and they haven’t fixed it, I just don’t consider them to be active patrons anymore, and I don’t like having my numbers skewed by their presence.
I would also definitely appreciate having the means to manually remove a patron without having to block them.
If having an automated system AND having it be optional is too complicated to achieve, I think a simple manual system would be enough - even though I hate playing bad cop. 
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Thank you for clarifying all this, @erin. And my apologies, @gareth.southwell, I got that bit wrong…and I’m glad I was wrong! 
— Jack
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I’m glad too. Declines drive me crazy. If someone is genuinely interested, and there’s been a genuine mistake, then they’ll simply re-pledge when they realise. What I hate is people hanging around, refusing to answer messages, and you don’t know what’s going on.
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Me too, Gareth!
— Jack
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Would love to hear the results of the test! We have also wondered how many of the patrons either don’t receive or don’t bother to look at their email . . .
We would find it helpful to be able to delete long-declined patrons, or to have them automatically deleted (after being appropriately warned). Currently we try to contact all declined patrons 2 or 3 times and then, if they still don’t un-decline after about 3 months, we’ve been blocking them and then unblocking them (after emailing them a warning that this will happen).
We have a fair number of declined patrons at any given time, so having some of them removed after a while helps us see who we still need to be trying to contact, versus those that we’ve given up trying to contact.
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So far it has been eye opening. I’ll compile the numbers but the majority of the long term declines have not opened the email from bonjoro.
To compare I’m also testing sending videos to both new pledges (a thank you and reminder to make sure to add your RSS is) and cancelled pledges (just a simple thanks for the support).
Almost all of those emails are getting opened and the videos being watched.
Just doing all of these tests to see what the workflow is and if it is something I can do on a long term basis and then weighing the costs of the service and so on.
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Interesting! Thanks for the update!
Maybe got the Mailchimp route? Where they keep people who unsubscribe and report spam in the system, just to make sure they don’t get added again. But mostly they’re hidden from totals, reports, etc.
I think it’s important to be able to see people who have recently declined, so attentive creators can send a personalized note, but the rest of the time, you just want to make them disappear, and specifically make sure that they lose whatever patron benefits they were getting.
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Just wanted to report back on the test I did last month sending a Bonjoro to long term (over two months) declines. @FutilityCloset
TLDR - not a good use of time, except for the data gathering part.
I send a video out to 88 patrons just asking if they could update their card and thanking them for being a patron. With a link to the help article on how to update cards.
Out of those 88 emails sent, 32 emails were opened, 6 of those who opened watched the video and 2 people responded.
The average for my Bojoros (about 350) last month including these (weighing the average down) was a 65% open rate, 66% watch video rate and a 43% react rate.
I’m guessing that my instincts were right about long-term declined patrons,
- Either they did not give the correct email, they are not reading the emails or they are going to spam.
AND/OR
- They have just moved on, their preferences have changed or their financial priorities. Which I totally understand.
So I’m open-minded to seeing what @erin and the team are working on! For now I am going to be more deliberate and in the middle of the month block/delete a batch of longer-term declines based on the last charge dates.
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Thanks! Very interesting to hear what others’ experiences are to help
validate what we’re seeing, and nice that you had such good data to back up
your impressions.